Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Discussion of keyboards, gamepads, joysticks and other input related peripherals.
16Bittt
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Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Is it possible to setup 2 bluetooth controllers with 2 button combo to access menu?

I use different controllers for different cores and want to be able to access menu with each one I’m using.

But it seems I can only setup one controller to have that function at a time.

this is limiting and annoying.

is it possible to have 2 (or more) controllers setup with 2 button combo for menu access?
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

I'm surprised that there is no single response..

so everyone is just using one controller for all cores?
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Lightwave »

I have different controllers set up with a 2-button combo, and no issues here.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

You can map a menu shortcut to each and every controller you map, bluetooth, wired, or otherwise. I have half a dozen different controllers, and they all have a menu button set up and it works just fine.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Different controllers can be recognized as the same type when they are mimicing something on USB, for example Xbox 360 or Switch Pro controller. So when you define keys for A and then redefine them for B, B will overwrite A and will be used for both controllers. You can save a mapping per core for most buttons so if you only use A for some cores and B for others then there is no conflict, however the menu shortcut must be defined globally and not on a per-core basis, so conflict will then be inevitable.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Sigismond0 wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:27 pm You can map a menu shortcut to each and every controller you map, bluetooth, wired, or otherwise. I have half a dozen different controllers, and they all have a menu button set up and it works just fine.
FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:41 pm Different controllers can be recognized as the same type when they are mimicing something on USB, for example Xbox 360 or Switch Pro controller. So when you define keys for A and then redefine them for B, B will overwrite A and will be used for both controllers. You can save a mapping per core for most buttons so if you only use A for some cores and B for others then there is no conflict, however the menu shortcut must be defined globally and not on a per-core basis, so conflict will then be inevitable.
16Bittt wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:51 pm I'm surprised that there is no single response..

so everyone is just using one controller for all cores?
I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong?

I’m trying to connect 2 bluetooth controllers,these are official Nintendo SNES and Sega Genesis controllers (both made by Nintendo for Switch Online but they’re standard bluetooth and work with everything).

Both connect and wok with games fine but I can only map 1 at a time to use MENU shortcut (button combination).

what I do,I go to Mister System Setting and then to Define Joystick Buttons,that’s where I have the option to map a 2 button combo for MENU.

but I can only map one controller with this setting.

The other controller works for everything esle but can’t use Menu shortcut.

So If I map the SNES Controller to use Start+ Select to open Menu,and then play Genesis games with Sega controller,I have to press Start+Select on SNES controller to access menu and vice versa

There is no option to map MENU shortcut for 2 controllers and re doing the setting overwrites the previously mapped controller.

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muteki
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by muteki »

Same issue here with an 8bitdo SN30 and N30 2.4g. I am not even connecting both at the same time, but if I map MENU to the home button on the N30, then the combo stops working on the SN30 and vice versa.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

https://boogermann.github.io/Bible_MiST ... k-mapping/

Note the information about VID:PID. These show when you configure a controller (as xxxx:xxxx). If both of them are the same between the two controllers, then yes mappings are going to overwrite each other, and there's nothing you can do about that.

WIth the 8bitdo 24.ghz USB receivers, at least some of them support a hidden ability to change what controller they appear as (therefore their VID:PID). To change modes you hold home+DPAD for 5 seconds, the direction dictates which mode they go to. Seems different for each controller. If you can plug them into a PC and look at devices/printers -> game controller properties, you can see what modes the controller changes into.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:51 am https://boogermann.github.io/Bible_MiST ... k-mapping/

Note the information about VID:PID. These show when you configure a controller (as xxxx:xxxx). If both of them are the same between the two controllers, then yes mappings are going to overwrite each other, and there's nothing you can do about that.

WIth the 8bitdo 24.ghz USB receivers, at least some of them support a hidden ability to change what controller they appear as (therefore their VID:PID). To change modes you hold home+DPAD for 5 seconds, the direction dictates which mode they go to. Seems different for each controller. If you can plug them into a PC and look at devices/printers -> game controller properties, you can see what modes the controller changes into.
I'm not sure you understand the issue here..
both controllers connect and work..(for basic functions)
but the Mister Setting only allows one controller mapped with button combination set for MENU function .
MENU shortcut is essential when using Mister.
this is either a major bug or there is a workaround that I just can't figure out.(hence posting this here)
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Wave »

Respectfully, there's a good chance they do understand it. Their answer is what I figured was happening too, but I didn't feel like looking up the VID:PID stuff last night to confirm. They mentioned a potential workaround as well.

If I were troubleshooting it I'd confirm what VID:PID each pad has so you can see what files they're writing to in the config/inputs folder when you map them in the Menu core. If both controllers are using the same VID:PID then there's your problem (like they said). If they're not then yeah, maybe that's not it. Good to rule it out though.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:51 am https://boogermann.github.io/Bible_MiST ... k-mapping/

Note the information about VID:PID. These show when you configure a controller (as xxxx:xxxx). If both of them are the same between the two controllers, then yes mappings are going to overwrite each other, and there's nothing you can do about that.

WIth the 8bitdo 24.ghz USB receivers, at least some of them support a hidden ability to change what controller they appear as (therefore their VID:PID). To change modes you hold home+DPAD for 5 seconds, the direction dictates which mode they go to. Seems different for each controller. If you can plug them into a PC and look at devices/printers -> game controller properties, you can see what modes the controller changes into.
Wave wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:30 am Respectfully, there's a good chance they do understand it. Their answer is what I figured was happening too, but I didn't feel like looking up the VID:PID stuff last night to confirm. They mentioned a potential workaround as well.

If I were troubleshooting it I'd confirm what VID:PID each pad has so you can see what files they're writing to in the config/inputs folder when you map them in the Menu core. If both controllers are using the same VID:PID then there's your problem (like they said). If they're not then yeah, maybe that's not it. Good to rule it out though.
I just checked and the joystick ID (VID:PID) is same for both pads.(I just looked at the joystick ID on Mister mapping menu,I didn't check any config file etc)

does it mean I can't do anything about it and have to use a different controller instead of one of these two?

the reason I questioned if FoxbatStrargazer understood the issue was because both gamepads work.(despite having same VID:PID) it's only the OSD button that works on one pad at a time and requires re-mapping while switching controllers.
every other function of both pads work and they are different pads as you can see above.
and there is no OSD/MENU button on these 2 pads unlike 8Bitdo.and they are Bluetooth not 24.ghz USB ones.

PS : these pads are the best and the feel exactly the same/have identical quality of original SNES and Sega Genesis pads from 90s,that's why I insist on using them,nothing else in the market come close,I have had many including various 8BitDo pads with my Mister but these are just better..they cost a fortune to import too!
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

I've taken the time to test this today, and can report the following:
  • Using a SNES classic controller, and an 8bitdo M30 both connected by Bluetooth to the same adapter.
  • Home was mapped to L+R on the M30 and to SL+SR on the SNES controller.
  • I can activate the menu toggle from both controllers while at the main menu.
  • When in a core, only P1 can pull up a menu. This doesn't matter how it's mapped (single button, dual button, etc).
  • If the second player tries to activate a 2-button menu combo, the core just reads it as you pressing both of those buttons and does whatever they're normally mapped to.
I've also got Saturn/Genesis pads from RetorBit and I get similar results there. As car as I can tell, menu access from single or dual button combos works for multiple controllers at a time. But while in a core, only the controller mapped to P1 is allowed to access the menu.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Sigismond0 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:05 pm I've taken the time to test this today, and can report the following:
  • Using a SNES classic controller, and an 8bitdo M30 both connected by Bluetooth to the same adapter.
  • Home was mapped to L+R on the M30 and to SL+SR on the SNES controller.
  • I can activate the menu toggle from both controllers while at the main menu.
  • When in a core, only P1 can pull up a menu. This doesn't matter how it's mapped (single button, dual button, etc).
  • If the second player tries to activate a 2-button menu combo, the core just reads it as you pressing both of those buttons and does whatever they're normally mapped to.
I've also got Saturn/Genesis pads from RetorBit and I get similar results there. As car as I can tell, menu access from single or dual button combos works for multiple controllers at a time. But while in a core, only the controller mapped to P1 is allowed to access the menu.
I also have 8Bitdo M30 (Sega Genesis style) ,if you use different adapters for each 8Bitdo pad,they should work independently including OSD/MENU button and you should be able to map one additional bluetooth pad (like SNES classic or any Retrobit pad)via a seperate Bluetooth USB receiver.
that was my experience,also m30 has dedicated Home/Menu button so no botton combo serup is needed.

in fact I successfully connected 3 different 8Bitdo pads (each via seperate 8Bitdo adapter) : M30 for Genesis,SN30 for SNES plus the PC Engine Pad and all worked perfectly including OSD menu button.

I can add one additional bluetooth controller (SNES claasic OR Sega Genesis made by Nintendo for Switch online) to all these 8BitDo pads and I can map 2 botton combo to access MENU on that controller,if it's connected to a seperate Bluetooth dongle.

but I can't map OSD/MENU combo button for 2 bluetooth (non 8Bitdo) pads since they share same joystick ID PID on Mister.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Wave »

16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm I just checked and the joystick ID (VID:PID) is same for both pads.(I just looked at the joystick ID on Mister mapping menu,I didn't check any config file etc)

does it mean I can't do anything about it and have to use a different controller instead of one of these two?
If the MiSTer sees two pads as being the same, I believe that does mean you can't have separate mappings for each coexisting.

FoxbatStargazer noted that you could possibly get around this on certain dongle-using 8BitDo controllers but it sounds like that isn't an option since these are just Bluetooth.
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm the reason I questioned if FoxbatStrargazer understood the issue was because both gamepads work.(despite having same VID:PID) it's only the OSD button that works on one pad at a time and requires re-mapping while switching controllers.
every other function of both pads work and they are different pads as you can see above.
I think it might just be a coincidence that the same mapping works well for both pads.
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm PS : these pads are the best and the feel exactly the same/have identical quality of original SNES and Sega Genesis pads from 90s,that's why I insist on using them,nothing else in the market come close,I have had many including various 8BitDo pads with my Mister but these are just better..they cost a fortune to import to!
Yeah, I hear you. Right now I would love to have an OEM NES controller that both works and feels like it used to back then. My childhood ones are fairly fucked right now so I've been looking for good-quality rubber/silicone membrane replacements but very bad experience so far. Why can no one make good ones? (A question I often ask about modern d-pads.)
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Wave wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:44 pm
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm I just checked and the joystick ID (VID:PID) is same for both pads.(I just looked at the joystick ID on Mister mapping menu,I didn't check any config file etc)

does it mean I can't do anything about it and have to use a different controller instead of one of these two?
If the MiSTer sees two pads as being the same, I believe that does mean you can't have separate mappings for each coexisting.

FoxbatStargazer noted that you could possibly get around this on certain dongle-using 8BitDo controllers but it sounds like that isn't an options since these are just Bluetooth.
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm the reason I questioned if FoxbatStrargazer understood the issue was because both gamepads work.(despite having same VID:PID) it's only the OSD button that works on one pad at a time and requires re-mapping while switching controllers.
every other function of both pads work and they are different pads as you can see above.
I think it might just be a coincidence that the same mapping works well for both pads.
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 pm PS : these pads are the best and the feel exactly the same/have identical quality of original SNES and Sega Genesis pads from 90s,that's why I insist on using them,nothing else in the market come close,I have had many including various 8BitDo pads with my Mister but these are just better..they cost a fortune to import to!
Yeah, I hear you. Right now I would love to have an OEM NES controller that both works and feels like it used to back then. My childhood ones are fairly fucked right now so I've been looking for good-quality rubber/silicone membrane replacements but very bad experience so far. Why can no one make good ones? (A question I often ask about modern d-pads.)
I'm very fussy about controllers.
I can't believe some Mister owners just use a Playstation or Xbox pad with all cores and call it a day,I mean what's the point of investing so much on Mister if you don't care about controller layout and accuracy.. you might as well just use emulation..(controller feel/quality/shape and button layout is as important as other aspects of hardware accuracy IMO)..

I spent so much money on these 2 controllers (around $100 each) because I wanted the best/most accurate experience.it's a shame but what can you do,
I accept Mister's limitation.
and keep them boxed until a day when this issue is fixed (possibly).

I already have a 8Bitdo M30 for Sega Cores, a 8BitDo NEC PC Engine pad,a USB Hori Arcade Stick fully Sanwa modded for NEOGEO and Arcade cores and I will buy another 8BitDo SN30 Pro for SNES.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Wave »

I have a BlisSTer and a bunch of adapters, so I definitely enjoy the real things. And I can't play SNES with a MD pad, or vice-versa. NES on PC Engine... maybe.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:09 pmI'm very fuzzy about controllers.
I can't believe some Mister owners just use a Playstation or Xbox pad with all cores and call it a day,I mean what's the point of investing so much on Mister if you don't care about controller layout and accuracy.. you might as well just use emulation..(controller feel/quality/shape and button layout is as important as other aspects of hardware accuracy IMO)..
No need for gatekeeping. If they're having fun, that's all that matters. Nobody cares whether or not you approve of their controllers, and nobody's hurting you by using them.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Sigismond0 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:39 pm
16Bittt wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:09 pmI'm very fuzzy about controllers.
I can't believe some Mister owners just use a Playstation or Xbox pad with all cores and call it a day,I mean what's the point of investing so much on Mister if you don't care about controller layout and accuracy.. you might as well just use emulation..(controller feel/quality/shape and button layout is as important as other aspects of hardware accuracy IMO)..
No need for gatekeeping. If they're having fun, that's all that matters. Nobody cares whether or not you approve of their controllers, and nobody's hurting you by using them.
Yes I know,I enjoy them,but in some other forum they suggested I use a PS4 controller and call it a day that's why I got annoyed :)
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Lightwave »

Wave wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:44 pm I would love to have an OEM NES controller that both works and feels like it used to back then.
NES Classic controller (into Raphnet USB adapter).

Bonus: Works for SNES classic too.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

There's probably similar mapping on the Nintendo controllers because they report as Nintendo switch pro controllers after all.

If you focus on buttons both controllers have, you can probably make a menu combo. Maybe start+A or something, since the Genesis controller is lacking select. Or maybe even ZR+ZL since you probably don't want to use them much for gameplay. I don't know how the Genesis controller would be mapped to Switch pro which is critical, but you can figure it out with the inputtest core.

I would say map the SNES controller in inputtest, check which buttons light up on the screen in inputtest, then connect the Genesis controller (without mapping it), reset player assignments, and see which buttons the genesis lights up. Then you know how the genesis buttons equate to the more standard SNES layout, and you can probably come up with a two-button combo for menu that can be used across the controllers.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Wave wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:44 pm
Yeah, I hear you. Right now I would love to have an OEM NES controller that both works and feels like it used to back then. My childhood ones are fairly fucked right now so I've been looking for good-quality rubber/silicone membrane replacements but very bad experience so far. Why can no one make good ones? (A question I often ask about modern d-pads.)
have you tried using Nintendo official NES controller (for Switch online)? they are bluetooth and should work with Mister,although I haven't used them myself,since I'm not into NES and 8-Bit era..but I think they are as close as you can get to the real old school ones.

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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:50 am There's probably similar mapping on the Nintendo controllers because they report as Nintendo switch pro controllers after all.

If you focus on buttons both controllers have, you can probably make a menu combo. Maybe start+A or something, since the Genesis controller is lacking select. Or maybe even ZR+ZL since you probably don't want to use them much for gameplay. I don't know how the Genesis controller would be mapped to Switch pro which is critical, but you can figure it out with the inputtest core.

I would say map the SNES controller in inputtest, check which buttons light up on the screen in inputtest, then connect the Genesis controller (without mapping it), reset player assignments, and see which buttons the genesis lights up. Then you know how the genesis buttons equate to the more standard SNES layout, and you can probably come up with a two-button combo for menu that can be used across the controllers.
thanks,I haven't tried this (trying to map 2 buttons that are available on both SNES and SEGA controller for OSD/MENU shortcut) this could work.
I'll try it when I have time and possibly update here.

but I already bought a 8Bitdo SN30 Pro,now I have 3 8Bitdo adapters and controlelrs connected to my Mister.

the Mister looks weird now with all these 8Bitdo receivers hooked up.

but all controllers work perfectly just like a console experience,the 8Bitdo special bluetooth dongle is really neat,fast and easy connection with sync button unlike regular bluetooth dongles but you need one adapter for each controller.

I still miss the authentic ones.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

16Bittt wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:08 pm but all controllers work perfectly just like a console experience,the 8Bitdo special bluetooth dongle is really neat,fast and easy connection with sync button unlike regular bluetooth dongles but you need one adapter for each controller.
For what it's worth, regular BT dongles are pretty much just as seamless now. When using a regular dongle, you can hold the OSD button to sync new controllers. And anything that's already synced will page and connect as soon as you turn the controller on, quick and immediate.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

The Nintendo made controllers are just plain better build quality, I'm just concerned about their input lag. The Switch has some really slow polling that makes it a low priority, the pro controller reports a whopping 16 ms lag on Mister for instance. Don't know about the others but the M30 2.4ghz is quite good, 1ms wired and 5ms dongle.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

SNES contorllers have been tested and are equivalent to Pro controller latency, ~15ms. BT M30 polls ~11ms, for comparison. 2.4 M30 is also right around 11. M30 is only getting down to 5ms wireless if you're using a DB9 adapter, not the native USB receiver.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

Sigismond0 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:20 pm
16Bittt wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:08 pm but all controllers work perfectly just like a console experience,the 8Bitdo special bluetooth dongle is really neat,fast and easy connection with sync button unlike regular bluetooth dongles but you need one adapter for each controller.
For what it's worth, regular BT dongles are pretty much just as seamless now. When using a regular dongle, you can hold the OSD button to sync new controllers. And anything that's already synced will page and connect as soon as you turn the controller on, quick and immediate.
Yes I have a standard BT dongle and aware of syncing with home button,but the 8BitDo dongles still provide a better,more seamless experience with multiple controllers.no mix-up and you clearly see which dongle corresponds to which controller.
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by 16Bittt »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:40 pm The Nintendo made controllers are just plain better build quality, I'm just concerned about their input lag. The Switch has some really slow polling that makes it a low priority, the pro controller reports a whopping 16 ms lag on Mister for instance. Don't know about the others but the M30 2.4ghz is quite good, 1ms wired and 5ms dongle.
I personally didn’t notice much difference in lag between Nintendo made ones (both SNES and Sega Genesis) and 8Bitdo and I tried many games different cores,but people’s sensitivity towards lag can be very different.

but I’ve read people did through comparison lag tests and Nintendo made ones are among the worst here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... M/htmlview
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Re: Setting up 2 controllers with 2 button combo for menu possible?

Unread post by Wave »

Thanks for the rec, Lightwave / 16Bittt. Yeah, as others mentioned I regard those with wariness given the MiSTer input lag test results for them. Hmm.

Here's something I wonder: are the rubbers/membranes inside compatible with original OEM NES pads? lol, I can imagine paying $35+ for one of these things just to scavenge its innards.
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