Bezels for Arcade Cores

[Alkadian]

Hi guys,
Just a thought. Would it be possible to display bezels for the Arcade Cores? I would love to play Gorf with the bezel around the screen
I remember when I was a kid I was used to be fascinated by the vertical games with the bezels around, especially the creepy and spooky ones
Thanks!

[mhartman]

I don’t think you’ll see this for FPGA because the FPGA goal is to keep the lag down and to be true to the original hardware. Having bezels likely would be counter to both of these goals. That being said...who knows?

[alanswx]

On the hdmi side we should be able to do this with no additional lag or problems. It is a little complicated. At some point the framework will probably allow this. It would be nice to have overlays for the computer cores with keyboard layouts and instructions.

On the vga side we run into resolution issues.

[lomdar67]

I don’t think you’ll see this for FPGA because the FPGA goal is to keep the lag down and to be true to the original hardware. Having bezels likely would be counter to both of these goals. That being said...who knows?

From a technical stand point why would a bezel add any lag?

Would love to see bezels and overlays for games that originally had them like many Vectrex games.

[mhartman]

I agree with the post above, if you run HDMI you’d probably be ok. I run mine into an arcade cabinet at native resolutions, so bezels would require additional overhead and converted resolutions.

[TwinX]

There are background graphics for some games. So this would make me think bezels are possible too.
However i personally don't feel this. More and more requests of MAME functionality rises. I was happy that we have hardware simulation and not to deal with emulators anymore. I always learned Less is better.... However my personal point of view as i hate bloatware...

[alanswx]

There are background graphics for some games. So this would make me think bezels are possible too.
However i personally don't feel this. More and more requests of MAME functionality rises. I was happy that we have hardware simulation and not to deal with emulators anymore. I always learned Less is better.... However my personal point of view as i hate bloatware...

Backgrounds happen within the original video bounds. Bezels have to be outside which means the video timing needs to change over the hdmi needs to understand how to resize things. It is a lot more work. Also in space invaders I ended up cropping the backgrounds so they are just the part of the display that shows.

[Slipard]

However i personally don't feel this. More and more requests of MAME functionality rises. I was happy that we have hardware simulation and not to deal with emulators anymore. I always learned Less is better.... However my personal point of view as i hate bloatware...

You can call it simulation as much as you want, it's still emulation and, indeed, the future of MAME is to do both PC and FPGA emulation. The way things are going, arcade cores are already developed using a MAME approach and even MAME ROMs.

As for bloatware, I guess MiSTer goes in that category, already, but that's a given since it's a hobbyist project and not a polished commercial products for everyone.

[LamerDeluxe]

There are background graphics for some games. So this would make me think bezels are possible too.
However i personally don't feel this. More and more requests of MAME functionality rises. I was happy that we have hardware simulation and not to deal with emulators anymore. I always learned Less is better.... However my personal point of view as i hate bloatware...

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

With most arcade cores, integer scaling on HDMI often leaves a border around your display, IMO it would add to the experience to have the original bezel graphics there. Displaying on a CRT would be preferable, but that is a hassle with vertical oriented games.

[lomdar67]

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

Totally agree. At the moment playing Vectrex games on mame feels much more accurate as on MiSTer. Don't know if there are any games out there that really need a bezel, but overlays are a must for some games.

[TwinX]

There are background graphics for some games. So this would make me think bezels are possible too.
However i personally don't feel this. More and more requests of MAME functionality rises. I was happy that we have hardware simulation and not to deal with emulators anymore. I always learned Less is better.... However my personal point of view as i hate bloatware...

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

With most arcade cores, integer scaling on HDMI often leaves a border around your display, IMO it would add to the experience to have the original bezel graphics there. Displaying on a CRT would be preferable, but that is a hassle with vertical oriented games.

This is something i cannot deny. Only the overlay here is the exact same size as the screen right? So this is like alanswx said it would not hurt as much as it will not affect video timings.

[alanswx]

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

Totally agree. At the moment playing Vectrex games on mame feels much more accurate as on MiSTer. Don't know if there are any games out there that really need a bezel, but overlays are a must for some games.

I decided we needed overlays in vectrex. It is coming along but I need to see if I can improve the alpha and have it a bit more realistic.

65A483FA-850C-44DD-9576-D655997825B9.jpeg (24.4 KiB) Viewed 12132 times

[Alkadian]

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

Totally agree. At the moment playing Vectrex games on mame feels much more accurate as on MiSTer. Don't know if there are any games out there that really need a bezel, but overlays are a must for some games.

I decided we needed overlays in vectrex. It is coming along but I need to see if I can improve the alpha and have it a bit more realistic.

65A483FA-850C-44DD-9576-D655997825B9.jpeg

@alanswx, That's simply awesome!

[alanswx]

557C1254-FA35-4303-A07B-CE678AAC2808.jpeg (26.08 KiB) Viewed 12125 times

I will need some help with some of the graphics. I got these from retroarch. Pinball doesn’t line up.

[alanswx]

With the Vectrex the overlays are an important part of a game. I own one and the overlays make a big difference. You are not going to simulate this with physical overlays, so software versions would be a great solution.

Totally agree. At the moment playing Vectrex games on mame feels much more accurate as on MiSTer. Don't know if there are any games out there that really need a bezel, but overlays are a must for some games.

I decided we needed overlays in vectrex. It is coming along but I need to see if I can improve the alpha and have it a bit more realistic.

65A483FA-850C-44DD-9576-D655997825B9.jpeg

out.png (46.77 KiB) Viewed 12106 times

This is a simulation I am working on in python before i move it to the FPGA. Does this look like a good way to do the blending?

[alanswx]

Does anyone use the half resolution feature in Vectrex?

[alanswx]

out.png (46.21 KiB) Viewed 12104 times

Maybe this is better with brighter vectors.

[Alkadian]

Totally agree. At the moment playing Vectrex games on mame feels much more accurate as on MiSTer. Don't know if there are any games out there that really need a bezel, but overlays are a must for some games.

I decided we needed overlays in vectrex. It is coming along but I need to see if I can improve the alpha and have it a bit more realistic.

65A483FA-850C-44DD-9576-D655997825B9.jpeg

out.png

This is a simulation I am working on in python before i move it to the FPGA. Does this look like a good way to do the blending?

It looks awesome to me!

[Alkadian]

Does anyone use the half resolution feature in Vectrex?

Never used that before.

[Alkadian]

out.png

Maybe this is better with brighter vectors.

Oh yes, this looks really better! I love it!

[LamerDeluxe]

Oh wow, lots of things happened while I was away, I wasn't expecting that. This is looking very promising, thanks for the great work @alanswx!
Good to see the aspect ratio and display offset coming along great as well. I don't have many of the overlays yet. Two of them I made myself a long time ago.

[lomdar67]

Maybe this is better with brighter vectors.

Looks really great. Love the different colors of the „vectors“. I never had a Vectrex myself, only played at a friend. Can’t really remember the colors, but it seems the vectors where more white than yellow:

https://youtu.be/Ked5BXNFNqc
https://youtu.be/D--SVZ6pWWg

[Alkadian]

Oh wow, lots of things happened while I was away, I wasn't expecting that. This is looking very promising, thanks for the great work @alanswx!
Good to see the aspect ratio and display offset coming along great as well. I don't have many of the overlays yet. Two of them I made myself a long time ago.

Indeed, when I created this topic I wasn’t expecting this sort of interest! Let alone these fantastic overlays made by @alanswx! They look awesome! Thanks again and keep up the excellent work!

[alanswx]

Maybe this is better with brighter vectors.

Looks really great. Love the different colors of the „vectors“. I never had a Vectrex myself, only played at a friend. Can’t really remember the colors, but it seems the vectors where more white than yellow:

https://youtu.be/Ked5BXNFNqc
https://youtu.be/D--SVZ6pWWg

Interesting. I wonder what the best way to handle it is. I would think it depended on lighting, etc.

[lomdar67]

Interesting. I wonder what the best way to handle it is. I would think it depended on lighting, etc.

I assume the Vectrex has variable brightness setting. So the brighter it is, the more white the vectors would look.

[LamerDeluxe]

Maybe this is better with brighter vectors.

Looks really great. Love the different colors of the „vectors“. I never had a Vectrex myself, only played at a friend. Can’t really remember the colors, but it seems the vectors where more white than yellow:

https://youtu.be/Ked5BXNFNqc
https://youtu.be/D--SVZ6pWWg

Interesting. I wonder what the best way to handle it is. I would think it depended on lighting, etc.

The thing with the Vectrex is that its contrast can really be regarded as HDR. It is much larger than a normal display can handle. So the colors in photos all strongly depend on camera exposure.

In real life, for instance with the blue overlay of minestorm, the vectors become a light blue, maybe even white with the brightest effects (also depending on the brightness dial at the back). It is kind of a tone mapping, depending on the brightness of the vectors (the vectors have variable brightness).

[alanswx]

Looks really great. Love the different colors of the „vectors“. I never had a Vectrex myself, only played at a friend. Can’t really remember the colors, but it seems the vectors where more white than yellow:

https://youtu.be/Ked5BXNFNqc
https://youtu.be/D--SVZ6pWWg

Interesting. I wonder what the best way to handle it is. I would think it depended on lighting, etc.

The thing with the Vectrex is that its contrast can really be regarded as HDR. It is much larger than a normal display can handle. So the colors in photos all strongly depend on camera exposure.

In real life, for instance with the blue overlay of minestorm, the vectors become a light blue, maybe even white with the brightest effects (also depending on the brightness dial at the back). It is kind of a tone mapping, depending on the brightness of the vectors (the vectors have variable brightness).

The asteroids rasterizer has multiple colors - blue/white depending on the simulated brightness. I don't think the vectrex rasterizer has this. I might try to swap it at some point, but I will probably just start with something simple at first.

[macro]

Asteroids deluxe has a blue gel overlay, the hardware still draws vectors in white on the screen and they fade to black.

at no point are they ever any other colour, but boy are they intense when full on! (maybe the blue tinge is to try and make the full white seem more intense)

[alanswx]

Anyone want to try this test build? I made the color a little more white when the vector is brighter.

[lomdar67]

Anyone want to try this test build? I made the color a little more white when the vector is brighter.

Thanks a lot!

Just wanted to give it a short try because I have to go to work, but couldn't figure out in which folder the overlays have to go to...