MiSTer FPGA Forum

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:33 am**

Please excuse my ignorance if this has been asked before, but would Killer Instinct be a possibility on a MiSTer setup?

I believe the specs are something like this:
Main CPU : SDT79 R4600-100MS @ 50MHz
Sound : DCS Sound System (ADSP-2105 @ 10MHz)
Storage : Roms for the program and sound, Graphics streamed directly off of the Harddrive.

I'm assuming that it my be a bit much for the MiSTer hardware, but I could be wrong. I believe Killer Instinct 2 runs on the same hardware.
I own two KI arcade PCBs but I'm unable to use them due to a lack of a suitable power supply, and sadly I have zero knowledge on how to create a core.

Can I get my hopes up that one day a core may be made, or am I just hoping for the impossible?

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:08 pm**

Those are close to N64 hardware, so most likely they
won't for in MiSTer. even ignoring that there is no FPGA versions of the chips yet...

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:12 pm**

I think the CPU core runs at 100 MHz, with the system bus running at 50 MHz. I don't think that's necessarily a showstopper (people have done conventionally-pipelined 100+ MHz CPUs in a Cyclone V fabric), but it definitely puts it at the more difficult end of things.

However, unless I'm missing something, the video RAM is too big and fast to happen on MiSTer. According to the MAME driver notes, it's 1MB of SRAM with 20 ns access time. 1MB is too big to fit in internal FPGA RAM, and if it's organized as a 64-bit bus (which I think would be expected with that CPU), that's equivalent throughput to running the MiSTer SDRAM at 200 MHz.

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:15 pm**

The CPU wasn't really that similar to the N64 CPU personally, to the point where we could say if one is implemented the other one can be too, etc...

N64 = R4300i
350nm die process
1.6-1.7 million transistors
Runs at 93.75MHz
16kb of Instruction Cache and 8kb of Data Cache

Midway Killer Instinct = IDT79R4600-100MS
500-650nm die process (not sure on this one, but typically they were made in this range according to docs online)
2.2 million transistors
Runs at 100MHz
MQUAD208 Pin layout
16kb each of Instruction and Data Cache.

There's more to it than this, but let's say by some amazing breakthrough the MiSTer could barely handle the N64. If that could happen, then the MiSTer would need to be able to do quite a bit more to support Killer Instinct, it was a bigger more powerful CPU with more pins, more instructions, etc...

This isn't even getting to the GPU, which is the hard part for the N64 anyways I believe. The GPU on the N64 was immensely more powerful than the PS1 or Saturn. The PS1 did something like 180,000 polygons per second (well 360,000 per second if you are measuring in the most charitable way possible for Sony), and the N64 did something like 1 million polygons per second. So far the ps1 core in theory can do graphics considerably faster than the original ps1, if everything was just running straight to the GPU.

Not to say it's impossible, but the devboard that mazamars is using is much beefier (and often used for graphics work) than the DE10-Nano that the MiSTer Platform is on.

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:49 pm**

aberu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:15 pm This isn't even getting to the GPU, which is the hard part for the N64 anyways I believe.

As far as I can tell, Killer Instinct hardware doesn't really have a GPU. At least, I don't see anything on the board that looks like it could realistically be a GPU, and the only clearly graphics-related register I see in the MAME driver is a single bit to flip the framebuffer start address.

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:44 pm**

You are right! Crazy. So on some level it might even be easier than n64. Just easier enough to maybe get on the platform.

Cool thing with ps1 is there are a ton of arcade games that use basically the same hardware as the ps1. At least 20 different motherboards with many games.

Posted: **Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:00 am**

Thank you everyone for your info! Much appreciated!

So from what I can gather, the CPU is higher spec than the N64, making it very difficult if not impossible to do in MiSTer. Although the lack of a dedicated GPU may make things easier. But then the video RAM is possibly too much for the MiSTer anyway.

So I guess the answer is that it would be a very slim chance of a core being possible. Would that be a correct assumption?

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:18 am**

Boondall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:00 am So I guess the answer is that it would be a very slim chance of a core being possible. Would that be a correct assumption?

If it's so important that you need to ask for confirmation, it's best to say it will never happen.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:16 pm**

Arcade KI 1 is definitely prettier then KI gold.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:53 pm**

I just wanted to point out I only recently realized the backgrounds in Killer Instinct are all (well, most of them) like FMV streamed in real time from the hard drive. It seeks to whichever frame represents where you're standing on the stage. Definitely a neat trick that fooled a lot of people (myself included) at the time.

Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:24 am**

dano wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:16 pm Arcade KI 1 is definitely prettier then KI gold.

When i played KI and KI2 in the arcade and heard it was coming to the N64 back then i was so excited untill i saw and played the game on the console and that was an enormous letdown.

Posted: **Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:48 pm**

I apologize if this isn't entirely relevant but I would also pay attention to the possible inclusion of FPGAs in future AMD cpus since that may be a game changer and open up the possibility of more advanced arcade games and systems being replicated (including KI 1 and 2) and such.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-p ... ntegration

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:41 pm**

NessieNep wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:48 pm I apologize if this isn't entirely relevant but I would also pay attention to the possible inclusion of FPGAs in future AMD cpus since that may be a game changer and open up the possibility of more advanced arcade games and systems being replicated (including KI 1 and 2) and such.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-p ... ntegration

Probably just an SoC competitor to what Intel has already been doing with Altera chips for over a decade. This is all part of the Xilinx acquisition deal, AMD (like any company that acquires another company that makes a laterally associated product) is just looking to double dip. I wouldn't put much stock in the idea of this being a consumer-grade AMD chip with that kind of performance.

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:28 pm**

Yeah, and I think the bottom line is that there's plenty of FPGA hardware out there capable of a KI core; we're just not likely to get that hardware for the price of a DE-10 Nano in the foreseeable future. We don't necessarily need a revolutionary new product category, we just need the next iteration of the DE-10 Nano concept with a bigger FPGA and/or fast onboard RAM connected to the fabric. Something like Replay2 might be able to pull it off.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:25 pm**

For instance, I'm 99% sure this is the board that mazamars is using to develop their N64 core.

https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-vid ... lications/

The chip on this is roughly twice the size in terms of "space" to work with on the FPGA, and has differences in how the addons would work, many of the kinds used for MiSTer might not work at all.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:15 pm**

Probably not but a Primal Rage could be possible, just set your expectations to be more realistic.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:48 pm**

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:15 pm Probably not but a Primal Rage could be possible, just set your expectations to be more realistic.

Both of the Primal Rage games would be awesome, Considering the arcade DRM hasn't been cracked in mame yet. But that could definitely be a road block.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm**

0ruiner0 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:48 pm Both of the Primal Rage games would be awesome, Considering the arcade DRM hasn't been cracked in mame yet. But that could definitely be a road block.

Well this is Dire at this point as these boards are breaking down and this game will just disappear. This needs to be worked on before they are all gone.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:13 am**

Boondall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:33 am I own two KI arcade PCBs but I'm unable to use them due to a lack of a suitable power supply,

Hey, both these games run on a standard $20 power supply. I owned a 1 arcade machine and still own part 2. Let me know if you need help getting them working to play. They both play fine using a Super Gun on your TV as well.

redsteakraw wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:04 pm Well this is Dire at this point as these boards are breaking down and this game will just disappear. This needs to be worked on before they are all gone.

Can you expand on this? I have a Primal Rage machine as well as 2 extra PCBs and I haven't heard about them breaking down at all. Do you mean boards more like CPS1 that have failing chips? The PR PCB is pretty hardy as far as I know, but if you have heard something, please let me know!

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:43 am**

I'll stick with the Xbox One and modded OG XBOX versions then.

Posted: **Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:57 pm**

As a total KI nerdy im so happy to be able to play KI Gold on N64 Core.
Make so much fun and plays perfect to me.

So i just wanna ask if there are any news about KI 1 comming on Arcade core ?

Kind regards

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:20 pm**

that guy that is working on MK looks like he is doing KI for mars he has the arcade board

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:01 am**

So i need a Mars soon

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:51 am**

mr-box wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:20 pm
that guy that is working on MK looks like he is doing KI for mars he has the arcade board

Would be interesting to see it running one of these days.

MiSTer FPGA Forum

Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?

Re: Would Killer Instinct 1 & 2 be possible on MiSTer?