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Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:21 am
by Longtime4321
I'm getting some accessories for my DE-10 Nano tomorrow so I can finally set it up as a MiSTer, and I was wondering about the best composite solution. I have a CRT that only accepts composite and RF, and I lack the knowledge to mod it for RGB or component or S-Video or whatever. I want to know if I should use the composite cores, or get a VGA to composite adapter. With either option, I would also like to know what specific cords/adapters are best. Thank you!
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:05 am
by akeley
Check these links:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... e--s-video
https://www.retrorgb.com/how-to-hook-up ... osite.html
To recap, there is no straightforward solution. You will get the best results from using the custom cores though, as the adapter has been reported to be hit & miss.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:22 pm
by fierman
I'd avoid using RGB adapters alltogether indeed. Proper rgb-composite solutions do exist - but they would cost you more than a nice secondhand crt which does accept RGB.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:08 pm
by DevilHunterWolf
I personally love the Composite / S-Video cores that were put out. I like to go between a VGA monitor for the AO486 core and my Commodore 1702 for the console cores so the fact that I can do both without needing to open up the case to change a jumper for an adapter is great. It uses the same recommended VGA to Component cable as normal with an RCA splitter being used to join the two appropriate wires into one for Composite. For the Commodore 1702 or any "Commodore Video" capable monitor, you just plug into the luma and chroma ports.
But there are some things I will let people know about. MikeS1 does a fantastic job keeping up with core updates but it is still technically a cat and mouse game between a core getting updated and when MikeS1 has time to get it done. This also means that the newest cores may not have a YC version until later. That may bother some people. I personally don't consider it a big issue since the main systems I'd want Composite for are covered but I will mention it as a potential downside. The bigger thing is that TV output quality seems to be a bit hit and miss without an adapter to help regulate it. The cores were designed with the Commodore 1702 in mind and I seem to have good luck with the TVs I've used them on but I am aware my experience is not always the case.
See the thread about the Composite / S-Video cores to get a better idea of people's experiences.
viewtopic.php?t=4434
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:08 pm
by Longtime4321
Thank you, everyone!
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:18 pm
by akeley
fierman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:22 pm
Proper rgb-composite solutions do exist
What do you have in mind? From what I know, the issue is with MiSTer framework, not the hardware itself. That's why there's the need for custom cores.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:56 pm
by colonel panic
I've been using the adapter from Antonio Villena for years. I know the signal is technically a bit sub par with the dot crawl issue, but it's not really noticable to me. A while ago me and my brother compared the output of the NES core with the adapter to a real NES on the same CRT, and we both agreed that overall the adapter's composite output was cleaner than that of a real NES
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:46 pm
by _javi_
Longtime4321 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:21 am
I'm getting some accessories for my DE-10 Nano tomorrow so I can finally set it up as a MiSTer, and I was wondering about the best composite solution. I have a CRT that only accepts composite and RF, and I lack the knowledge to mod it for RGB or component or S-Video or whatever. I want to know if I should use the composite cores, or get a VGA to composite adapter. With either option, I would also like to know what specific cords/adapters are best. Thank you!
Although working on CRTs is a bit risky, the benefits of the RGBmod are "sight to behold".
Check if your TV set is already documented on the mod, as the mod/install itself is quite doable.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:15 pm
by akeley
colonel panic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:56 pm
A while ago me and my brother compared the output of the NES core with the adapter to a real NES on the same CRT, and we both agreed that overall the adapter's composite output was cleaner than that of a real NES
That might be true for NES and some other cores but other ones (eg Genesis) were reported to have heavy extra artifacting - hence my original "hit & miss" comment.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:20 am
by colonel panic
Yeah now that I'm thinking about it you're probably right. We didn't think to test any other cores that day, although we did play the NES core for quite a bit. Most of the time I use that adapter it's for S-video, which is a totally different beast
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:55 pm
by fierman
akeley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:18 pm
fierman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:22 pm
Proper rgb-composite solutions do exist
What do you have in mind? From what I know, the issue is with MiSTer framework, not the hardware itself. That's why there's the need for custom cores.
This one for instance.
https://www.axunworks.com/RGB-to-Compos ... 41706.html
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:12 pm
by akeley
Yep, heard about it which is why I put it in the wiki, but I'm not 100% sure it actually delivers artifact free composite image on MiSTer, for the aforementioned reasons.
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:01 pm
by eobet
akeley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:12 pm
Yep, heard about it which is why I put it in the wiki, but I'm not 100% sure it actually delivers artifact free composite image on MiSTer, for the aforementioned reasons.
Has anyone actually tested this? If it doesn't produce swimming pixels, I'd be quite interested (I'm less interested in running custom cores).
Re: Best Solution for Composite Signal?
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:31 am
by dmckean
The custom cores are the way to go. No external solution will come close for composite.