Open Source release of MiSTer Multisystem Console hardware all-in-one I/O design

[emiliom]

Anyone have recommendations on solder, solder paste and flux? I don't know if to go with lead free or leaded. I haven't seen a single YouTube video where anybody recommends lead free (at least for solder wire), although I did watch one where a guy tried a more modern lead free solder and it seemed to flow quite nicely. But all the solder profiles in the data sheets appear to be for lead free solder. Throw flux into the mix and it's doing my head in. The gel looks quite messy and in repair videos I always seem to see people using the liquid flux. And then there's the flux types...it's quite a mine field. I wouldn't mind but it's not like you can buy a bunch and try them out as some of them are quite expensive!

[DeKay]

Let's take a step back here. How exactly are you going to assemble this board once you get all the components, especially SMT chips like the USB controller? For example, if you aren't taking the toaster oven / hot plate reflow approach, I don't see where you'd need solder paste.

[Flandango]

If these are new boards from PCB manufacturer, then there usually isn't any solder on the board to do a reflow with so will need solder paste.

[emiliom]

Let's take a step back here. How exactly are you going to assemble this board once you get all the components, especially SMT chips like the USB controller? For example, if you aren't taking the toaster oven / hot plate reflow approach, I don't see where you'd need solder paste.

I don't have an oven but I do have a hot air gun on my solder station so I got a stencil when I got the PCBs as it was only about £8 extra. I thought I'd try reflowing the surface mount components and then solder the through hole components manually.

[neopterygii]

Greetings All, PCBWay shows this when adding to cart: Please fill in the layer order from top to bottom. Does this need to be filled in? Thanks!

[rezendes]

Thanks @emiliom and @dekay for continuing to track down proper components. I’ll be ordering and assembling mine when I return from my vacation and I’ll make sure to post the results when I’m done.

[emiliom]

Just a quick update. I finally got my parcel through from LCSC today. I note that there are no manufacturers names on any of the labels of the component packets unlike the labels from my Mouser / Digikey orders. I think this probably means nothing. The components all look correct and the manufacturers codes are all correct, so perhaps they just don't print as much info as other vendors as their labels are small. It all looks good to me, but I mention this is case it sways a purchasing decision. As I say, the components all look correct and the printed MPNs and specs are all correct so I'm happy.

[emiliom]

Greetings All, PCBWay shows this when adding to cart: Please fill in the layer order from top to bottom. Does this need to be filled in? Thanks!

I'm not sure about this. I ordered from JLCPCB as it lets you upload the Gerber file first and then works out most of it for you. I would have thought the layer order should be specified in the Gerber file which is why I didn't get that question from JLCPCB?

[Fuzzball]

What is the likelihood anyone in the UK starts making this to sell? Or are the parts too difficult to get hold of in bulk?

[emiliom]

What is the likelihood anyone in the UK starts making this to sell? Or are the parts too difficult to get hold of in bulk?

Not that high I would have thought. I don't know how much trouble someone would want to go to. Certainly some of the parts are not easy to get. Just from looking around to build my own parts list, many of them are available in the thousands, or tens of thousands, but some of those were out of stock, or had low stock, and very long lead times. So you'd have to contend with that, find alternatives or wait for stock etc. Then there's the hard to get parts. Off the top of my head the SCART and expansion port connectors I could only find from single suppliers, and the SCART connector was very low stock - about a hundred I think they had. So unless that can be sourced from a manufacturer getting it would be hard going. So yeah, definitely a challenge.

I think it's more likely people might just go about building their own as some of the people on this forum are planning. At least that way you only need small quantities.

[neopterygii]

Greetings All, PCBWay shows this when adding to cart: Please fill in the layer order from top to bottom. Does this need to be filled in? Thanks!

I'm not sure about this. I ordered from JLCPCB as it lets you upload the Gerber file first and then works out most of it for you. I would have thought the layer order should be specified in the Gerber file which is why I didn't get that question from JLCPCB?

Do you (or anyone) have a good working bom for jlcpcb? Thanks!

[emiliom]

Do you (or anyone) have a good working bom for jlcpcb? Thanks!

No. I bought the bulk of my components from Mouser and DigiKey. LCSC are part of the same group as JLCPCB, so I guess if they have a component then it will also be available to JLCPCB. LCSC do have quite a few of the required components, but not all. I do have a few LCSC components listed in the BOM I posted, but not all the ones they had available. If you wanted to try and make up a list for JLCPCB though you could check the MPNs from my BOM on LCSC and see how many you can find.

[LeeW]

Do you (or anyone) have a good working bom for jlcpcb? Thanks!

I used JLCPCB but I'm hesitant to provide a specific BOM until I have confirmed it works because I'm a complete noob when it comes to this kind of thing. Also some of the parts are simply not available, with no good alternatives (headphone audio jacks and scart connector). A few parts are unavailable but you can use the JLCPCB parts ordering system to get them, however the costs don't seem to be worth it IMO:
Amphenol 114-00841-68 (uSD card reader) - $18.4275
TE Connectivity 5650090-7 (expansion port) - $21.7140
C&K L102021ML04Q (power switch) - $33.6945
So over $70 for just those 3 components to buy them in for JLCPCB placement. Buying them from DigiKey was exactly £30 (£36 with VAT, approx $38 or $45.5 with VAT).

These parts bump up the price quite a bit, pushing the total price much higher than I initially thought. The memory is the single most expensive component but this is what you'd expect. I feel like minor edits to the board could allow for some cheaper alternatives (especially the damn headphone jacks, which cost £24, £28.8 with VAT). Personally, I also wouldn't have put an ethernet connector on the board. And scart connectors seem to just be difficult to get these days, especially in this vertical orientation. Perhaps having a right angled scart at the edge of the board would be more future proof, or just have a version of the board without a scart connection.

If everything turns out okay I may keep one for backup and sell 3 of the boards at cost.

[DeKay]

These parts bump up the price quite a bit, pushing the total price much higher than I initially thought. The memory is the single most expensive component but this is what you'd expect. I feel like minor edits to the board could allow for some cheaper alternatives (especially the damn headphone jacks, which cost £24, £28.8 with VAT). Personally, I also wouldn't have put an ethernet connector on the board. And scart connectors seem to just be difficult to get these days, especially in this vertical orientation. Perhaps having a right angled scart at the edge of the board would be more future proof, or just have a version of the board without a scart connection.

I like where you're going with this. Any other suggestions?

I think the idea of the Ethernet connector on the board was to avoid plugging into the Nano directly as (at least some of) its connectors are known to be fragile. Going to a right angle on the SCART would make life easier for sourcing but cable management could be very tricky. It looks like one of the variants on this page (color A4) is vertical SCART though. Does this help?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005486003535.html

[Snaggletooth]

Hi All

Was hoping for some assistance, I recently bought A DE10-Nano with the intention to order a multisystem board, alas by time I had managed to save the money the board is not availible

Was just going to create a regular Mister Setup but really liked the look of the multisystem, as such wondering if you could humour a complete novice
when it comes to the open source project.

If I were to use a site like JLCPCB and submit the required files, would I get back a full working Misterboard like you would have bought previously?
Or just the Base PCB with missing components on it?

Depending on answer I may or may not have more questions.

[LeeW]

I like where you're going with this. Any other suggestions?

I think the idea of the Ethernet connector on the board was to avoid plugging into the Nano directly as (at least some of) its connectors are known to be fragile. Going to a right angle on the SCART would make life easier for sourcing but cable management could be very tricky. It looks like one of the variants on this page (color A4) is vertical SCART though. Does this help?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005486003535.html

The only other thing that comes to mind is that the expansion port seems to be specific to the multisystem, I don't know if there could be a different connector that would give more options/future proofing? On the other hand changing it would break compatibility with the expansion cards they have made, which some people may want to keep, so maybe not.

Ah I hadn't heard of the ethernet port issue. But the multisystem already requires an external ethernet cable to connect the nano to the multisystem board, so I would probably prefer to remove those components from the board entirely and have an optional male to female RJ45 cable that can attach to the case somehow. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Extensi ... B01LPQVPHY

I was able to get the SCART connector, I was just thinking that going forwards it's going to become even more difficult to get.

[LeeW]

If I were to use a site like JLCPCB and submit the required files, would I get back a full working Misterboard like you would have bought previously?
Or just the Base PCB with missing components on it?

So JLCPCB will make the base PCB without any components, but they do also have an assembly option as well where you can submit a parts list. In theory you would get a complete working multisystem board if you can select all the correct parts for the assembly. Essentially you would have this:

mms_board_4__03582.jpg

But as I mentioned some of the parts are not available on JLCPCB, with no alternative parts that you could pick instead. Because of this I ordered it with assembly but left some components empty. I have had to buy the missing components separately and will manually add these on.

Also worth pointing out that the minimum order quantity is 5 boards.

And you'll also need to separately buy a small ethernet cable, USB cable, and power supply (Mean Well GST25A05-P1J 20W 5V 4A).

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks for your reply Lee, Thought that may be the case.

Well Multisystem is off the books for me now then, just not feesable for me which is a shame had loved look of it from Day 1, Still at least lots of other options for putting a MiSTer system together.

Hope someone does get this up and running again, on a commercial perspective, really was a fab looking system.

[neopterygii]

Pcbway doesn’t seem very reasonable for small quantities. This is the quote for min 5 pcbs with 2 of them assembled:

PCBs cost: $256.76
Component cost: $144.37
Assembly cost: $30
The estimated building time will be about 35-36 days.

I think I will also have to give up on this for now until a more reasonable option presents.

[LeeW]

I got my PCB's delivered today. This is what I'm working with now:

uYiQ2LW.jpg

Tomorrow the rest of the components should be here and then the fun begins.

[ZungYouse56]

I got my PCB's delivered today. This is what I'm working with now:

Tomorrow the rest of the components should be here and then the fun begins.

I honestly wish you the best of luck and when everything is working out definitely share a bom because I've tried and the parts are hard to find and source to see if that's the part or another version of that part.

[LeeW]

I have all the components now, well other than the fact that I bought 5 SCART connectors but only received 3... Haven't yet got around to soldering them though. Here's a pic of the board with the final components in-place (not soldered):

XeIbDaw.png

Final cost worked out to be £420.96, so about £84.2 per board.

Hopefully I can get the components soldered tomorrow and then test everything.

[DeKay]

Hopefully I can get the components soldered tomorrow and then test everything.

Good luck!!! Once you've got it basically checked out, it would be interesting to run the MemTest utility and see what speeds you get out of the SDRAM.

[LeeW]

Okay, so the MiSTer board doesn't connect to my MultiSystem board. The 40 pin female headers need to be extra tall and not standard height. Due to this the pins don't connect to my board. The distance from the board measures just under 14mm, so it seems like that means it must be a standard 8.5mm socket with two 2.5mm spacers, totalling 13.5mm. Maybe useful information to others.

Looks like you'll need something like this: ESQ-120-23-T-D

[emiliom]

Okay, so the MiSTer board doesn't connect to my MultiSystem board. The 40 pin female headers need to be extra tall and not standard height. Due to this the pins don't connect to my board. The distance from the board measures just under 14mm, so it seems like that means it must be a standard 8.5mm socket with two 2.5mm spacers, totalling 13.5mm. Maybe useful information to others.

Looks like you'll need something like this: ESQ-120-23-T-D

The ones I got from Mouser are 14mm: SparkFun PRT-16764.

I’ve been spending the last week or so practicing soldering so I only started placing my components today. But I’ve also found one definite and one potential problem.

Unless the SCART socket is made in different styles, it appears to be wrong. I used Heber’s part code but the one I got has round plugs for mechanical fitting to the board, whereas the board has thinish straight holes. They also don’t line up. The pins line up, but not the plugs.

Also the SD card receptacle doesn’t appear to have the same number of solderable connection points at the back. The board has 2 pads on either side of the card holder at the back, but the actual component only seems to have one on either side that are horizontal and can be soldered like a pin. Have you found the same thing?

[DeKay]

Be interesting to see the results from the testing as someone was asking for a MMS board on the FB group and someone made the following comment :

"I recommend you watch a few videos about those boards. They have multiple manufacturing issues and some very real electrical defects that cause behavior that doesn't match other separate IO board solutions. The snack connectors don't behave properly on certain cores and there are some of these boards that randomly fail in the first year. If you buy separates it's dead simple to put them together and you'll have an overall better and more dependably built result."

I've just read over the last four pages of this 12 page thread on this very forum about the MultiSystem and people seem pretty happy with it.

viewtopic.php?t=3031

I looked for videos on YouTube and found one guy complaining about USB working but that was about it. Most of the videos were of the form "I just got this and it is great", so not much in the way of longer term stuff. I'm not on FB so didn't look there.

[emiliom]

Did anyone ever get any further info on resistor R8? Looking at my board there are 2 tracks from R8 to switch SW6 but in the BOM it shows up as DNF and as far as I can see in the photo of the 'delivered' board there is no resistor there.

[LeeW]

I researched this beforehand and found that DNF means do not fit/do not place, so this would be left empty. As you say in the delivered board there is nothing there.

[Missus]

Be interesting to see the results from the testing as someone was asking for a MMS board on the FB group and someone made the following comment :

"I recommend you watch a few videos about those boards. They have multiple manufacturing issues and some very real electrical defects that cause behavior that doesn't match other separate IO board solutions. The snack connectors don't behave properly on certain cores and there are some of these boards that randomly fail in the first year. If you buy separates it's dead simple to put them together and you'll have an overall better and more dependably built result."

I've just read over the last four pages of this 12 page thread on this very forum about the MultiSystem and people seem pretty happy with it.

viewtopic.php?t=3031

I looked for videos on YouTube and found one guy complaining about USB working but that was about it. Most of the videos were of the form "I just got this and it is great", so not much in the way of longer term stuff. I'm not on FB so didn't look there.

seconded (thirded?) never once had an issue with my MMS

[rezendes]

I wanted to share my build progress, this is where I’m currently at after ordering all parts from the BOM @emiliom posted. I only had an issue with 2 or maybe 3 items that were out of stock but alternates were available. I’m located in the US and I am still waiting for 2 parts: USB IC and the Vertical HDMI connectors. I am having trouble ordering the optical toslink audio connector from the provided site for whatever reason, if I decide I need it I’ll just give them a call and order manually. Sadly without the USB IC I don’t think I can test my setup any further. So far I’m not seeing any LEDs blinking in the back next to the Network port (I assume that’s what they’re for?) it does have a Network symbol on the Mister menu that pops up and shows the date/time so maybe that’s a good indicator? One thing to note was the 2 40 some odd pin connectors that interface the DE10 nano stick out a Ton on the bottom of the board after being placed and will need to be individually snipped which was slightly annoying (wear protective eyewear).

EDIT

I wired up a USB OTG cable and keyboard is working and update all script is downloading files but still no network LEDS (#9 and #10) assuming that’s what they are for…. Is it possible that the USB IC is somehow necessary for the power/operation of those LEDs like maybe they wired it funny?

PXL_20230821_185251139.jpg

PXL_20230821_185258054.jpg